Oleo de Motor indicado para os nossos carros
- Thread starter AudiST
- Data de Início
Só não vou experimentar porque depois ainda fico a péNorma 507 protege mais os componentes do motor, fricção etc, não faltam testes sobre isso!
O problema não está no óleo mas sim no desenho da cabeça do motor PD que é uma merdaarvore de cams mal desenhada, touches mal desenhadas, injetor bomba com dimensões exageradas... basicamente o problema foi falta de espaço no topo!
Mas calma... é motor do aço lol estava a ver se encontrava aqui um texto de um engenheiro auto que explica isso tudo
@BlueA4 tu tens VP na b5 isso até oleo de fritar podia levar pah
Mas que ja vi alguns motores a queimar óleo de fritar em vez de gasóleo...já
um deles é um UMM de um familiar meu em Portugal "A common problem in VW and Audi TDI with pumpe duse TDI engines (PD) are worn camshaft lobes, lifters (camshaft followers), and bearings. If you have a 2004-2005 VW Passat TDI (BHW), 2004-2005 Jetta (BEW), 2004-2006 Golf, New Beetle (BEW), 2005.5-2006 Jetta (BRM), or V10 Touareg TDI, you have a PD engine. Pumpe duse technology was also found in other markets with other engines years before and after North American availability. It's unknown if the V10 Touareg has this problem since there were so few sold and it uses a completely different cylinder head design than the 4 cylinder engines. Unit injector (generic name for pumpe duse) technology is also used on a few non VW/Audi diesel engines.
The major difference between pumpe duse VW/Audi TDI engines and other TDI engines is the unit fuel injectors which are actuated by the camshaft. Because there's limited space on the cylinder head, pumpe duse engines sacrificed valve lobe width to fit the extra lobe for the fuel injector rockers. See 1000q: direct injection and pumpe duse for more details on how the fuel injection system works.
VW recommends engine oil VW spec 505.01 for pumpe duse engines but if was only an engine oil problem it doesn't explain why there isn't even wear across all lobes and why some engines are not affected. Camshaft wear is an issue in both North America and Europe. See 1000q: TDI engine oils for a list. 5w-40 oil should provide more protection than 5w-30 and it can slow, but not repair engine wear.
The exact reason for excess wear is unknown but contributing factors could be manufacturing defects, poor design, thin engine oil, insufficient oiling at the bearing, incorrect specification oil used, or other factors. Some believe that even using the recommended specification engine oil won't help because of low zinc phosphorous in modern engine oils. ZDDP engine oil additive would add zinc but shorten catalytic converter life. It's unknown if this makes a significant difference over the long term. Regardless of the exact cause, the fact is that symptoms usually aren't noticeable until the car is out of warranty. If the car is under warranty, this is definitely something that should be covered.
Editorial speculation: It appears that #1 and 4 intake lobes are more likely to wear first. Franko6 has a theory that that the factory torque spec on the rocker bolts is too high. The rockers don't go all the way to the end of the cap and when combined with other factors such as insufficient oiling, slight warping could be a contributing factor to camshaft lobe wear. This is just a guess and I am not a professional mechanic or engineer - it also doesn't explain why only some engines get wear. There are modifications to the bearing cap that will increase oiling and might reduce wear (not just because of more lubrication but because oil takes away heat) but it hasn't been tested over the long term. Bearing caps are matched to the head and are not interchangeable. There are also the option of performance camshafts from KermaTDI linked in the parts section. Any non factory modification or torque spec is done at your own risk!
VW installed a mix of black nitrided hardened lifters and silver color non nitrided lifters across model years. VW probably recognized there was a problem and changed the lifters. As far as I'm aware, all mk4 PD engines came with silver lifters. Early mk5 came with silver and then half silver/half black lifters because I'm guessing they wanted to save money and use the older ones or get by with minimal changes. All replacement lifters should be black. PD cylinder heads share many parts but the BEW engine has a shorter lobe and shorter duration vs. the BRM and BHW. This means decreased contact time, a better oil film, and in theory, less chance of camshaft wear. While any SOHC PD camshaft will fit any SOHC PD head, using the wrong camshaft will change 2 major engine operations: long the valves are open and how the fuel injector rockers press the fuel injector. Both/either may result in sluggish engine response.
The self-adjusting hydraulic lifter has ports to keep it filled with engine oil and a "button" that the valve stem presses on. Below is a cutaway showing the internal springs."
A basic inspection requires the valve cover to be removed and the camshaft rotated to examine the lobes and lifters. This should tell you right away if there is lobe wear. The difficulty of removing the valve cover is only 1/5. A through inspection requires the timing belt to be removed (which is why the difficulty is rated 3/5) so that the camshaft can be removed to inspect the camshaft bearings. If you have a pumpe duse engine and are planning to do the timing belt soon, I suggest doing a basic camshaft inspection beforehand so that all parts are ready and there's no extra car down time.
If you find that you do have any camshaft wear, take many pictures documenting the wear. Keep all your receipts and try to see if VW customer care will work with you to cover the repair cost. All these cars are will out of warranty and the chance of any compensation is small but I still suggest that you keep all records."
Está em inglês mas dá para perceber bem todo o cenário me torno do motor PD
The major difference between pumpe duse VW/Audi TDI engines and other TDI engines is the unit fuel injectors which are actuated by the camshaft. Because there's limited space on the cylinder head, pumpe duse engines sacrificed valve lobe width to fit the extra lobe for the fuel injector rockers. See 1000q: direct injection and pumpe duse for more details on how the fuel injection system works.
VW recommends engine oil VW spec 505.01 for pumpe duse engines but if was only an engine oil problem it doesn't explain why there isn't even wear across all lobes and why some engines are not affected. Camshaft wear is an issue in both North America and Europe. See 1000q: TDI engine oils for a list. 5w-40 oil should provide more protection than 5w-30 and it can slow, but not repair engine wear.
The exact reason for excess wear is unknown but contributing factors could be manufacturing defects, poor design, thin engine oil, insufficient oiling at the bearing, incorrect specification oil used, or other factors. Some believe that even using the recommended specification engine oil won't help because of low zinc phosphorous in modern engine oils. ZDDP engine oil additive would add zinc but shorten catalytic converter life. It's unknown if this makes a significant difference over the long term. Regardless of the exact cause, the fact is that symptoms usually aren't noticeable until the car is out of warranty. If the car is under warranty, this is definitely something that should be covered.
Editorial speculation: It appears that #1 and 4 intake lobes are more likely to wear first. Franko6 has a theory that that the factory torque spec on the rocker bolts is too high. The rockers don't go all the way to the end of the cap and when combined with other factors such as insufficient oiling, slight warping could be a contributing factor to camshaft lobe wear. This is just a guess and I am not a professional mechanic or engineer - it also doesn't explain why only some engines get wear. There are modifications to the bearing cap that will increase oiling and might reduce wear (not just because of more lubrication but because oil takes away heat) but it hasn't been tested over the long term. Bearing caps are matched to the head and are not interchangeable. There are also the option of performance camshafts from KermaTDI linked in the parts section. Any non factory modification or torque spec is done at your own risk!
VW installed a mix of black nitrided hardened lifters and silver color non nitrided lifters across model years. VW probably recognized there was a problem and changed the lifters. As far as I'm aware, all mk4 PD engines came with silver lifters. Early mk5 came with silver and then half silver/half black lifters because I'm guessing they wanted to save money and use the older ones or get by with minimal changes. All replacement lifters should be black. PD cylinder heads share many parts but the BEW engine has a shorter lobe and shorter duration vs. the BRM and BHW. This means decreased contact time, a better oil film, and in theory, less chance of camshaft wear. While any SOHC PD camshaft will fit any SOHC PD head, using the wrong camshaft will change 2 major engine operations: long the valves are open and how the fuel injector rockers press the fuel injector. Both/either may result in sluggish engine response.
The self-adjusting hydraulic lifter has ports to keep it filled with engine oil and a "button" that the valve stem presses on. Below is a cutaway showing the internal springs."
A basic inspection requires the valve cover to be removed and the camshaft rotated to examine the lobes and lifters. This should tell you right away if there is lobe wear. The difficulty of removing the valve cover is only 1/5. A through inspection requires the timing belt to be removed (which is why the difficulty is rated 3/5) so that the camshaft can be removed to inspect the camshaft bearings. If you have a pumpe duse engine and are planning to do the timing belt soon, I suggest doing a basic camshaft inspection beforehand so that all parts are ready and there's no extra car down time.
If you find that you do have any camshaft wear, take many pictures documenting the wear. Keep all your receipts and try to see if VW customer care will work with you to cover the repair cost. All these cars are will out of warranty and the chance of any compensation is small but I still suggest that you keep all records."
Está em inglês mas dá para perceber bem todo o cenário me torno do motor PD
Anexos
Tenho um amigo que tem um à venda
bem bonitos... máquinas de guerra e agora o mercado está em alta para os UMM
O meu antigo opel astra 1.7D, rolava com 50% de gasoleo e 50% de oleo de fritar.Só não vou experimentar porque depois ainda fico a pé
Mas que ja vi alguns motores a queimar óleo de fritar em vez de gasóleo...já
Na epoca, enchia o tanque com 3500 escudos. Lol. Se fosse só gasoleo, 5 contos chegavam.
Basicamente ter 10w40 ou 5w40 na B5 ás tuches vão sempre bater a frio é isso ?
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Diria que é relativo, no meu caso não noto grande diferença.
Teoricamente o 5W vai subir mais rapidamente até ao topo do motor,
Pois por o 5w subir mais rapidamente é que estou naquela de mudar a ver se noto diferença no bater a frio
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Pois por o 5w subir mais rapidamente é que estou naquela de mudar a ver se noto diferença no bater a frio
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Pois por o 5w subir mais rapidamente é que estou naquela de mudar a ver se noto diferença no bater a frio
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Se calhar vou-me repetir, mas isto do bater das touches nos primeiros segundos a frio tb me começou a acontecer (tenho uma PD130) e só usava Castrol, inicialmente o TXT e depois o Edge, fazia com o 5w40 e 5w30 , achei estranho, pensei que fosse da elevada quilometragem, mas aconselharam-me a mudar de marca, experimentei Fuchs GT1 5w40 (passo a publicidade) e deixou de fazer o barulho, faça chuva ou faça sol, inverno, etc e já tem cerca perto de 400k...Fuchs é uma marca alemã que por norma abastece em fabrica as grandes marcas alemãs.
A meu ver (não sou expert em óleos, apenas pelo que tenho lido e falado e vou deduzindo), se o 5w chega mais rapidamente às touches, também regressa mais depressa ao carter. Ficando o carro parado por uns dias (e não sendo novo) é normal que ao pôr a trabalhar em frio se ouça um ligeiro martelar por uns segundos, até ser criada a pressão necessária para afinar as válvulas/touches. Atendendo que isto também varia com a temperatura ambiente que por si também afeta o material.
No meu caso uso o recomendado pela marca (desde novo, nunca levou outro) Edge 5W40 norma 505.00 (antes desta denominação acho que era o TXT) e apenas passou a levar um aditivo de viscosidade para as válvulas/touches a partir dos 100mKm, a conselho de um ex-mecânico da marca e por ser um motor com muita ferralha (24 valv). Mudo anualmente o óleo porque não atinjo os km, e leva o aditivo intercalado ano sim, ano não. Tem 180mkm e martela uns segundos quando chega a estar parada 4 dias, tirando isso é um ronronar.
Desculpem o testamento e corrijam_me se estiver errado, estamos sempre a aprender!
No meu caso uso o recomendado pela marca (desde novo, nunca levou outro) Edge 5W40 norma 505.00 (antes desta denominação acho que era o TXT) e apenas passou a levar um aditivo de viscosidade para as válvulas/touches a partir dos 100mKm, a conselho de um ex-mecânico da marca e por ser um motor com muita ferralha (24 valv). Mudo anualmente o óleo porque não atinjo os km, e leva o aditivo intercalado ano sim, ano não. Tem 180mkm e martela uns segundos quando chega a estar parada 4 dias, tirando isso é um ronronar.
Desculpem o testamento e corrijam_me se estiver errado, estamos sempre a aprender!
Isto das touches só me começou a acontecer à poucos anos atrás e de um momento para o outro, por isso achei estranho. O que vim a saber é que a receita foi alterada (pra pior a meu ver), tanto que mal meti a outra marca deixou logo de fazer e nunca mais fez. Por isso o escorrer é muito relativo, se o óleo deixar película, no arranque não faz barulho.
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Aí disseste tudo! É preciso que o óleo deixe essa película e que ela se aguente lá por dias... Sei que a Liqui Moly tem um aditivo especial para isso mas não sei se é só para o óleo deles (há tempos vi uma demonstração sobre isso com óleos diferentes a passar numas engrenagens e via-se a olhos a diferença da película que ficava nas mesmas). E por isso é que o meu mecânico me recomendou o aditivo (porque tb não ando com o carro todos os dias).
Se as formulas foram ou não alteradas....Não me admirava, as grandes empresas têm sempre meios de dar a volta e poupar na produção....
Este óleo já deve ter esse tipo de aditivo pq até na descrição fala disso e na durabilidade a mais que os outros. Estive quase para ir para a Motul mas indicaram - me este e não mudo mais até ver. Eu não sou a favor de aditivos, pode trazer outros problemas a longo prazo.
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Isto dos óleos é engenharia de ponta e misturar aditivos pode quebrar propriedades químicas para o qual foram projectados, além de poder deixar resíduos. Por isso os experts não serem a favor de misturar marcas ou gamas diferentes mesmo que tenham a mesma graduação pra não alterar propriedades.
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